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Finalist vs. Runner Up

Hello everybody,

I normally browse through this site anonymously because I think it is so informative and well put together. I also love seeing the names that are commented as winners of these auditions. Assuming you're all young, it brings me back to the joy I felt winning that first orchestra audition!

With a recent audition having concluded for us here, I thought I would clarify the difference between being a Finalist in a round of 2, vs. being named a Runner Up. Some of you may know this, some of you may not.

Just because you are in a final round of 2 participants (you and one other) and you unfortunately aren't offered the position, it doesn't make you a Runner Up. If you are a Runner Up, almost always it will be verbally "declared" by the committee. This means, if the winner turns down the position, you will then be offered the position. You are next in line. Aside from the rare occasion, this almost always does not happen if you are simply a Finalist who just so happens to be in a final round or super final round of 2 people.

This won't destroy your careers, making this small mistake, but the more you know! It's happened once or twice with those auditioning for our orchestra.

Another topic is the difference between Guest Principal vs. Acting Principal vs. Principal. I see this happen all the time. You are offered a 2 month contract, or a year, and Facebook profiles are being updated to "Principal (insert instrument here)." This is a discussion for another time perhaps!

Happy practicing!!

7 answers0 replies

7 Comments

seaflt

Apr 19

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Can we dissect the differences between Guest Principal, Acting Principal, and Principal?

Going off instinct here (and eager to be corrected/better informed) - I'm assuming that if you are invited from outside the orchestra (i.e. no formal audition) to play principal for a set period of time, you are a "Guest Principal." If you already play in the orchestra and are asked to move up to principal, you are "Acting Principal." Is that correct?

Now...what if you win an audition for a short-term (e.g. 1-year) position, to cover for a player on leave. Are you an "Acting Principal" since that's not your actual job? Or are you a "Principal" in the same way you would be if you were in your tenure year(s)?

And finally...if you are called to sub for a principal player, you are not any of the above, just a (valued) substitute.

Does this terminology vary from orchestra to orchestra? Looking forward to hearing the expertise of many!

Bsn696969

May 01

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Replying to

As far as I know: Guest = anyone subbing short-term, not contracted Acting = contracted for the position for a set period, e.g. one year, but not tenure track Principal = tenure track only

Edited

-redacted-

May 15

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Replying to

I think this explains it precisely 👏

Bsn696969

May 15

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Replying to

So many resumes with “Principal x at x Symphony Orchestra” when they subbed once at a pops show, though 😂

2old4auditions

Jan 19

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In our CBA the audition committee can 'qualify' any number of finalists. One winner is chosen (if only one vacancy), and if they are not able to accept the position for whatever reason, any of the qualified finalists may be offered the position (the choice being at the discretion of the Music Director). There could also be other finalists who are not given the 'qualified' label, and they would not be offered the position.

Edited

Kreisler

Jan 16

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Some orchestras also have contract clauses in which if runners-up can be automatically appointed to an vacancy within a specific amount of time after the audition. I wasn't aware of this until I was named runner-up at an audition, so I suspect many people might be surprised to learn this.

I'd be curious to hear from people who have served on committees as to whether the decision to name a runner-up is affected more by external circumstances (retirements, a high-leverage position, etc) or simply two people playing at a very high level in the audition.

-redacted-

May 15

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Replying to

Yes - from my understanding, this limited timeframe of eligibility for a runner-up is fairly commonplace in the industry. As has already been explained by others, it's typical for an audition committee to vote to "qualify" candidates, not actually hire them - that final decision is often left solely to the Music Director. This means that if a vacancy becomes open later (within 6 months, a year, or more, depending on what the CBA may say) then it would again be completely up to the Music Director whether or not to appoint the runner-up to the vacancy. But we have to remember, these things are not standardized across the industry and there will be some variation in procedures, so it's not wise to make any assumptions about how things work in one group because of a previous experience in a different group. If you find yourself in a final round and you're named the runner-up, you should ask the Personnel Manager lots of questions and make sure you're 100% clear on what the orchestra's contract says about your status.

As for committees pre-determining whether to name a runner-up ... I find that candidates (especially younger players) tend to think these things are more planned out than they often really are. Most committees simply discuss the final candidates and then vote. If more than 1 candidate receives enough votes to qualify, then there is a chance for one or more runners-up. But even in a situation where multiple candidates qualify, even a no-hire is still possible if the Music Director is not interested in hiring any of the qualified candidates. It has not been my personal experience that committees sit down before an audition and say, "okay, let's name at least 1 runner-up today" for one reason or another. I suppose that could happen, but it's my view that this situation usually comes about simply because more than 1 candidate played really well that day.